He’s a bearded, conservative, evangelical pastor from Oklahoma, who drives a pickup. So, it should be obvious who he voted for in the 2020 election, right? Not so fast… Why did Pastor Jeremy Coleman vote for Joe Biden and how did that vote cause 70 thousand people to follow him on TikTok?
Listen in as Paul Swearengin talks to Coleman who shares about the problems he believe Donald Trump’s presidency has brought to light and what the response of the church should be.
#ReligiousRightReligiouslyWrong #NPEpodcast #NonPartisanEvangelical #GodIsFun #GodIsNOTmadAtYou #MindRenewal @oldpastorpaul (TikTok)
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Transcript (Transcribed by AI so not 100% Accurate
Paul Swearengin: [00:00:00] Alright welcome to the podcast, everyone glad you’re with us
on a Monday as we’re recording this a beautiful day here in central California. Hopefully a great play great day where you are. And I’m excited about our guest on the podcast today.
He is a pastor from Oklahoma, in fact, he’s right. That pastor from Oklahoma on Tik TOK and his name’s Jerry Koh, Jeremy Coleman, the vision pastor for West Metro community church in Oklahoma city. And some of you may know him from Tik TOK as that pastor that voted for Joe Biden and grew to some fame.
And so I’m excited to talk to him about where he’s going with this as an infant or Jeremy. Did you ever think you would be a Tik TOK influencer,
Jeremy Coleman: man? I, I know. I know that’s a, that is a crazy question. And I’m sure one, you probably have asked of you as well, or you’ve asked yourself, like you wake up and you look in the mirror and you’re like, I’m a Tik TOK influencer.
I don’t know [00:01:00] how that feels, but no, I didn’t really ever I didn’t really ever think that would be a title applied to me by any stretch of the imagination. But it’s been a fun journey. I don’t know. I wouldn’t trade it. That’s for sure.
Paul Swearengin: Yeah, it was, we saw my wife’s assistant from her job and she told me like, my, my daughters came running in the other day and they said, mom, your boss’s husband is famous.
Yeah. So it’s a new thing there, but let me show people give them a little feel of what you do. On Tik TOK so that they can know who Jeremy, that pastor from Oklahoma
Jeremy Coleman: is. Okay. I’m that pastor from Oklahoma today, several of my amazing followers tagged me in this video. And I just wanted to add some thoughts.
Hi. So I don’t know if anyone cares, but I just saw a video that pushed me past my breaking point. So I’m done calling myself a Christian first off. Yes, I care. And I know how hard it is when there’s so many out there giving the name, Christian, a bad reputation. The staying strong because when we identify as Christians, [00:02:00] we are saying, we are people that are loved by Jesus who love like Jesus.
I remember when I was confirmed, I was told that the church would be like my life. It is so hard when we get stabbed in the back by people who say that they love us. But don’t forget this Jesus is love is perfect and people are not, I will continue to preach about my faith and Jesus and God, but I am done calling myself the Christian.
Yes. Keep sharing your faith, but keep fighting for the name, Christian, because you are a beloved child of God and you deserve to carry the name of Jesus.
Paul Swearengin: So that’s Jeremy Coleman that pastor on Tik TOK. So tell me about that. About
Jeremy Coleman: that post. Yeah. Yeah. So actually I’m trying to decipher.
What the next steps are. And as you try because your content is amazing as well. And something that you try to do is it’s think about, okay what needs to be sad right now? What are the words. That need to be spoken into the culture. And so I went from like [00:03:00] that silly hi, I’m that passed from broken all day.
The one who voted for Joe by, like that whole shtick or whatever which was relevant at the time because, it was good for people to look and go white dude, Oklahoma, pastor, big truck. Joe Biden, and
Paul Swearengin: you’re a unicorn, you’re a rarity.
Jeremy Coleman: That’s right. Yeah. And and the, that was the whole, that was the whole punchline that kinda started.
The thing was I’ve been on Tik TOK for all of 38 seconds and and decided that. I would put out this thing about, looks like a duck quacks, like a duck. And then all of a sudden it’s a sheep, and it didn’t make a whole lot of sense to a lot of people. And so it, it was fun.
But then as that morphed, I started getting really passionate about. Stuff that, that I wanted to hammer social justice criminal justice reform immigration reform, things that are near and dear to my heart that I believe are near and dear to the Lord’s heart as well at this time in our country.
And then things that I just saw that the church was broken on. And or at least when I say the church, the church in [00:04:00] America, the greater church. And there’s a lot of just common issues that we’re seeing in the American church right now. And so I went through a phase where I got a little bit I don’t know.
I don’t know. At times I was angry. And I was letting some of that spew I had spent, I’ve been in ministry for 14 years and so I think once the lid came off the volcano. People were catching 14 years of vomit, it was just, it was pain, it was hurt. It was watching my wife hurt my churches.
It was watching my friends hurt my churches. It was times when I was hurt by churches. And but what’s interesting about that video is it’s the one where I was like, you know what? I think what needs to happen is Is that we need to remember that we are. And I, and that was the big line.
I wanted people. If you walked away from anything with anything from that video, it was, we are people who love Jesus and who love like Jesus. And that’s the key. And that doesn’t mean that I’m not going to go on a rant again. That doesn’t mean that doesn’t mean that I’m not going to call out things because I’m going to [00:05:00] continue to call out things.
But I think there needs to be there. There’s just something said about about how we go about that process. And and that’s something that you do really is I think you speak to those things, but you speak. In a way that’s obviously a little bit more toned down.
Paul Swearengin: Maybe I try at times. Think, and let’s dig into the anger. Let me take you back to the angry place a little bit in the spewing place. Like what. What I’m trying to say is guys this and you being a pastor from Oklahoma, I grew up in the Midwest and Southern Missouri. And so I have those sorts of Oklahoma roots in my wife’s family’s from Tulsa.
So we know. And so Christian and Republican. We’re the same thing for us. We thought there was, we knew nobody that didn’t believe that way. And is that some of what you’ve been trying to speak into, maybe even on the angry side at times
Jeremy Coleman: a hundred percent and it’s been that process of [00:06:00] trying to help people understand that Republican and Christian are not synonymous.
And that we’ve got to get that out of our mindset, no matter which side of the aisle that we’re on politically. And actually, and I see people and I don’t, I, obviously my intention is never to never to hurt anybody’s feelings or whatever, but I, I see a lot of people, even people who are my support, Oh Jesus was a liberal See, we have defined those things.
In America we have defined what conservative means what liberal means now, do I think that that the left is doing a better job right now? Yeah, I do. About looking and being the hands and feet of Jesus and loving people for who they are. Yeah, I do. But yeah. I think I think that Jesus is Jesus.
And I think that stands alone. I think he’s the definition to which everything else fits. And so that’s the reason, I, my my response to that video, which I [00:07:00] had, and I don’t know, you probably got tagged in that video yesterday as well. I had, I just turned around at one point and I was like, I have 12 mentions just out of nowhere.
Which, you know this like on your notifications, like the most things you get are likes, then you get comments. The mentions don’t happen quite as much. And then all of a sudden I was like, man, I’m just getting this pile of mentions what is going on? And I checked out that video and it was, obviously going viral.
And people were calling on guys like you and I who have become like the clergy of today. Yeah.
Paul Swearengin: Yeah. We’re pastoring, Tik TOK. I love it.
Jeremy Coleman: And so what was when you, I assumed you watched the original video. Yeah. What was your response? What was your first takeaway when you saw that?
Paul Swearengin: This is a really common thing I’m hearing now. This is a con this, people think I just hate Trump or. Hate of angelical leaders or something like that. And none of that is [00:08:00] true. And in fact, I’ve been calling out this Republican right wing conservative Christianity when Bush was pre the second Bush was president.
So this was well before Trump. And the reason I call it out is because it’s subverting the gospel, it’s subverting the message of the church. And I believe that was what G made Jesus so angry about the church when he was here the first time, he didn’t have a lot of good things to say about the religious system of the day.
And and I think it was, Hey you’re putting oppression on people and I have a whole lot of. I think it’s pretty clear. They were trying to restore their country and he was like, that’s not, what’s important right now, right now is getting some other things in order and. So hearing millennials like Victoria, who’s a fantastic Tik TOK creator as well.
Say I’m done with Christianity is actually something I hear on a regular daily basis now. And so I’m, I may be in a little bit different place than where your video [00:09:00] is. I’m telling, cause, cause I don’t ever want to call the victim back to the victimizer, and so I’m like, okay, if you need a break, don’t run from your faith.
It’s okay. If you feel like you need to make a break from the Christian Church or the evangelical church or the church of your youth, but understand these human beings are poor representatives of God. That’s not who God is. Yeah. So I, and I’m not saying you’re doing that, but I’m really telling people like, Hey if that’s what you need to do, if you need a break from your community, Totally get it.
But yeah, I love it. Jeremy. I love that I agnostics and atheists on a regular basis are like, man, I hate the church, but I like what you’re saying, because I feel like it gives me a chance to connect them back to
Jeremy Coleman: God. Is that not crazy? How many comments you get like that? It’s insane.
The number of folks that are like, man I walked away from the church. Like I read a comment this morning. I walked away from the church 40 years ago. I’m thinking about going back. Because I watched your videos. Like it’s insane to me. [00:10:00] And I believe we passionately that the Lord is using what we’re doing to bring people peace, to bring people hope.
And I, it’s just, it is, it’s hard. And to your point, saw a lot of people comment on like my original posts saying Or my response post to the original post saying, look, I identify as a Jesus follower because the name Christian has been, Hustle, it’s been stolen by this radical evangelicalism and I’m sympathetic to that 110%.
But the thing that I always want to remember is when we call ourselves Christians, there’s, the literal translation is little Christ ones. We, we are literally taking his name and that’s something that I really wanted to say in that video was look, you deserve, you get to carry the name of Jesus.
And these people who are prostituting it for their gain and whatever, this version of quote unquote Christianity is that. That’s not it. You should be [00:11:00] able to carry the name of Jesus and wear it proudly. And it hurts when people have to find new ways to identify themselves when they deserve as children of God, as those who’ve been called call to Jesus, they deserve to carry that name.
Paul Swearengin: I’ve been a conservative evangelical Christian and a Republican for a long time. And I’m trying today to figure out, am I any of those things anymore? Because if this is what they’ve become, I’m not that was there like a breaking point for you? Was there a, yeah. Was there a moment where you’re like, I’m voting for Joe Biden because XYZ.
Jeremy Coleman: And I, that’s a really good question. I,
Paul Swearengin: maybe those are two separate things voting for Biden on the breaking point. Yeah, they are.
Jeremy Coleman: I so and I said this in my original video, Register Republican, as long as I can remember. If you’re in Oklahoma, it’s required for at least a time in your life, but
Paul Swearengin: absolutely.
Jeremy Coleman: I think so
[00:12:00] I voted for Joe Biden because first off I felt like he, he was. By far, our country’s best choice, especially in this election. And for these folks who were like calling Joe Biden, radical and all this kind of Joe Biden is about. Right down the middle as you, he leans left.
There’s no doubt about it, but he’s pretty daggum, moderate, and even my dad, I was having a conversation with him and he’s so I thought about voting for Joe Biden in the eighties, yeah. And it was like, yeah, because, back when people like use common sense and all those sorts of things, but it.
So for me, it was a pretty clear cut choice. At least
Paul Swearengin: was there a breaking point on the conservatism of the church and the etiology of the church for
Jeremy Coleman: you? Yeah, so I think the place where all of my all of my chips switched hands was. Had just started ministry [00:13:00] doing full-time ministry as I was 20 years old.
I, I, so I grew up at a pretty high school that I went to was really diverse. And so I had a lot of friends who were people of color, and and so it, it was a good, it was a good experience. I remember I remember playing ball with some of my. Some of my friends, like when I’m one of the guys on the baseball team, a guy from a Podunk school here in Oklahoma, yelling the N word at him.
And I just remember him being so devastated and having that conversation with him. I remember sitting in the passenger seat when a friend of mine who’s black got pulled over by the police and thinking and this is a legitimate thing. I remember going. My experiences aren’t like this, now it wasn’t completely out of control, but it was like, I remember getting pulled over even at I think I was like 17.
And I remember the first time I had gotten pulled over and I was given the benefit of the doubt on everything that came out of my mouth. Like this cop, just trust them. And maybe it was differences in cops. I, I don’t wanna, I don’t want to put a [00:14:00] blanket on that but I just remember going, man, they don’t trust anything he saying, and they like had him get out of it out of the car and.
And stuff like that. And then the crazy thing was, is they got him out of the car. They were like, patting him down. And do you have anything on you? And he had just rolled a stop sign or something. And I remember sitting there going, usually when they get somebody out of the car, they get everybody in it and they never touched me.
And I was like, this is wild to me. So I just remember experiences like that. And. Having those conversations with my friends who, I remember saying at one point, like I was in eighth grade on the basketball team, and I remember sitting with my teammates and saying man, aren’t we glad that we live in a country where, racism is in our past.
And these dudes just looked at me and I’ll never forget this kid named Nick. He looked me square in the face. And he goes, if you think racism is in the past, you haven’t lived in my shoes. And we ha and we had that conversation. So those conversations Zack with me. And so I was always. I was always super passionate about that [00:15:00] social justice aspect, which I felt was disconnected from the conservative platform, but I lived in a very conservative home.
When you’re a kid there’s that inner struggle and you never want to buck the system, but I remember I, I was married, we got married, super young. I took my first full-time position. In ministry. And I had a kid in my youth group who was, she was an amazing students, amazing family, just awesome folks.
And she goes off to college. Freshman year of college. He goes to a party one night, stand with a guy, gets pregnant and it’s a tough situation, not what she had envisioned, not what her parents had envisioned. Okay. But they just decide, look, Hey, Not the way we planned it, but we got a grand baby on the way this is exciting, we’re going to help, we’re going to support, we’re going to love, like it’s going to be good and everything’s going to be fine.
Like other we can do about it now, baby, on the way, and remember them going to the church and asking if they could have the baby shower there. [00:16:00] And the pastor told them that they would have to talk about it in the deacons meeting. And then I remember sitting in that meeting. And one of our lead deacon standing up and looking at the rest of that group of men and going, if we allow her to have her baby shower in this church, what message are we sending to the community about the sin she’s living in?
And that’s that was the point for me, where I was like, I’m out. Like I’m out. I can’t sit here and pretend like this is not a thing anymore. I don’t see, I don’t see that from Jesus at all. And so I see Jesus as someone who was about equality and social justice and love and grace and compassion and forgiveness and all of those things that we should be about.
And and so that was that was the big tipping point for me. And then, from there it’s been. An interesting
Paul Swearengin: ride, but yeah. Yeah. And I’m sure somebody out there is yeah, [00:17:00] but because this is what we always hear. Yeah. But Jesus said go and sin no more. And I’ve done a lot of content on that thing and said, guys, read the whole story and know what the story is about.
The story is not about. A woman who had sex, the story is about Jesus anger at these men, putting this woman on display and the system that put her in that place in the first place. And at least note that he put his entire reputation, his vocation, his career. Everything on even his life on the line for her before he ever turned to her and said anything at all.
And the first thing he said, when he turned to her was, Hey, where are your condemners? And she’s I think you ran them off. And then he’s so now I deserve to condemn you. And I don’t. And after all of that, then he said, go and send no more, which we can interpret what he meant, but that’s not the process you’re talking about.
That happened in that church
Jeremy Coleman: there? No, not at all. And that’s. First off when [00:18:00] you think about this, the story of this woman who’s caught in adultery there’s several, there’s always like really good questions that boil out of that story for me, the first thing is that I just, I want I, the, my first question out of the mouth when I stand face to face with Jesus is going to be, so what were you writing in the dirt?
I have to know. I got to know Because that is like one of the greatest ministries of scripture for me. And I know there’s all these, like th there’s all of these theories about what
Paul Swearengin: those things were, but yeah. Why did it scare off the old guys first? Like why did the older guys leave first?
And the young guys hung in until the last moment?
Jeremy Coleman: And that’s, what’s so wild. There’s like it’s super intentional. And you could tell something like real happened there. I just, I gotta know. I gotta know. Cause that’s probably the place in scripture the most where I’m like, Jesus was a bad man.
Like just, they come to him, and cause here’s the thing. You put, you hit the nail on the head, they, they were, it wasn’t even really about her. It was [00:19:00] about catching Jesus and they wanted him to buck against the commandments to go look, you don’t, you are standing against the law.
Therefore, you’re not a good teacher, and obviously they wanted a chance to to arrest him, to execute him. And, as they eventually did with nothing, but it’s
Paul Swearengin: Or I think they were just trying to marginalize him. I think they would have been fine if he had condemned her, then they could say to all these people, see he’s not quite as gracious and loving as you think.
Jeremy Coleman: Yeah. And then if he says, Oh , just go away. Give her grace. He doesn’t follow the law. So either way is not good because it’s a, it’s a talking point. So what is it,
Paul Swearengin: Homie. I learned that tactic from Jesus, by the way, because people are always giving me this, gay people going to heaven.
Yes or no. Or they’re always straight, yes or no. Just give me a yes or no. And I never give them a yes or no answer because, and it makes them so mad, but Jesus never liked just answered the question. So he could be marginalized on one side or the other. He started to delve into the deeper purpose of what was going on.
Jeremy Coleman: That was something that, that’s something that [00:20:00] I always loved to combat those questions with is, somebody who’s if somebody who’s practicing homosexual going to hell and I’ll always come back with are those who’ve committed any type of adultery, knowing the hell and.
You always see the wheels start to turn. Cause it’s man I don’t want to say that because maybe I was out at a restaurant one night and gave a girl a glance real quick. And I know that wasn’t right. And scripture says. As a man thinks in his heart. And so like they know all of those things.
Paul Swearengin: Yeah. I love, I always love to ask, is there anybody in your church that has had a no fault divorce and remarried that is a Sunday school teacher or a board member or a pastor? Because Jesus himself said that person is living in adultery for the rest of their lives. Yeah. And we tend to look at heterosis in a little bit differently.
Jeremy Coleman: And I think one thing that we do a really poor job at is that we stand in the middle of downtown [00:21:00] Manhattan and we look up and we try to number one, we’re trying to define. What sin is all the time out of our convenience, but then we’re standing in the middle of downtown Manhattan and we’re looking at it at buildings and we’re saying, Oh this sounds really bad.
And this sends not as bad. And I feel like God sees sin at 30,000 feet, it’s just. If it’s wrong. If it’s right. It’s right. And period. And but his grace is good enough to cover it. That’s the part we missed so often is like his grace blankets that, and
Paul Swearengin: yeah, I, I wanted to talk more about the social justice aspect of this, and I think you’re right.
I don’t think Jesus would be liberal or. Conservative or Republican or Democrat Bible says neither, neither Jew nor Greek, all of those things. But on as we’re recording this last Wednesday was the breaching of the capital building by these folks. And I think we’re all still processing through that.
So I’d love to hear your take on that. But I [00:22:00] just happened to have been scheduled, to do a live event with a predominantly African-American church in Wichita, Kansas, that, that night and. And we had another preset topic to talk about, obviously that got thrown away. But just to your story of the young man being stopped in the car I actually caught myself Wednesday night, cause I didn’t understand the gravity.
I, I had some idea of Hey, if these weren’t white people, this would go differently. But when I got on that, that it wasn’t a zoom call, whatever that, that platform with these black folks. I could feel their abject sense of being treated as less than by their country. Once again.
That they were again, grieving that that a black life doesn’t matter as much as a white life in America. And Jeremy, I just think as the church we’ve got to repudiate that. We can’t just tickle the lines on this thing. We have to say [00:23:00] racism in our midst, in the church is abhorrent to God.
Jeremy Coleman: think? I could not agree with you more on that. And I think here a couple of videos ago, I said something about, something is against the character of Jesus and the teachings of Jesus. Then we have to renounce it quickly and loudly. But we’re too worried about making sure that, folks don’t leave our country club, and that they don’t quit writing their checks.
And that’s been the biggest. Problem with the American church for a long time is that we’re trying to keep everybody happy. And, I think it goes back to. Originally what I was talking about when I first got on Tik TOK, it was like the lid came off and all this all this stuff just started pouring out of me that I was like, I was so angry about because there’s just so many things that The church needs to be better at, and this is a prime example and probably the, a number one thing that we have got to, especially, when you talk about churches here in the South or in the Midwest, [00:24:00] something that we have got to be actively fighting against.
And that was my first thought is I was watching all of those events unfold. I remember feeling as angry as I did. On nine 11 when I was watching that line. And I remember telling my six year old, I was like and I don’t know if this would, this really registers with her, but I was like, this is the thing that we’re going to remember where we were forever.
It’s one of those historical events an insurrection incited by the president of the United States. That’s what it is. Domestic terrorism. That’s what it is. And yet as those folks pushed their way into the United States, kept Apple with Congress, actively working inside. There are police officers taking selfies.
With people inside the building, there [00:25:00] are police officers that are just standing there chatting, like they look like they’re part of the crowd. Saw videos of them like removing barricades and letting people in closer and closer,
Paul Swearengin: helping a woman down the steps as they were leaving.
Jeremy Coleman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I remember seeing like they were in the rotunda, there was a camera set up in the corner. And as all these people are like filing through the rotunda, there are police officers standing there, like it’s a normal day and they’re just keeping people away from statutes.
And I don’t know. I just couldn’t help. But think if this was a black lives matter protest, which we saw earlier in the year with less people.
Paul Swearengin: Yeah. Nowhere near the Capitol,
Jeremy Coleman: nowhere near the Capitol, the national guard was immediately called in. When the national guard shows that rifles in hand, SWAT gear the whole nine, tensions automatically Mount.
And here we [00:26:00] are a day when it’s come out that in national security briefings, they had been talking about this deal on the sixth because the president had been pushing it. There was so much tension mounting and building, and all of this momentum to this day was building building, and then you’ve got, Josh Holly, who I really have to pray every time before I say his name.
You’ve got this guy who is, and dad’s like crews who are stirring the pot, and just allowing it to get more and more out of control. And.
Paul Swearengin: And didn’t you think after all that, there’s no way Josh Holly goes through with it going forward, that you know, that they came back and did that again is just mind boggling to me how.
Jeremy Coleman: He’s a, he’s the same guy who walks by and throws a fist to the crowd yeah. W it’s solidarity I don’t ever have to wonder again about what Josh Holly, his principles are.
Paul Swearengin: Yeah. I don’t remember the president when he had. [00:27:00] His folks move people out of the way. So he could hold a Bible upside down in front of a church saying to those people.
I love you. You’re very sweet.
Jeremy Coleman: You’re very special, but go home. You guys stop it.
Paul Swearengin: It makes me very angry. It makes me very angry and it makes me very angry at our people, Jeremy, very angry that we’re a part
Jeremy Coleman: of that. Yeah and that’s why we have to keep speaking so loudly against it because it is not okay.
By any stretch of the imagination, when you talk about when you talk about, from the perspective of being of being a white we cannot allow. The folks who look like us to continue to act this way. That is not okay. Period. It must cease today. Yesterday was too long. The day before that was too long, the a hundred years before that was too long.
And then when you think about being people who are, who were Christians and pastors watching people waving, [00:28:00] Jesus saves flags as they’re using those to bash out the windows of the Capitol like that is. I it’s just, it’s devastating. And I, there are so many things that I’m still just boiling that on when it comes to that whole thing.
It’s just hard to talk about because it because it hurts and because it’s embarrassing and because that’s not who we should be. As people who love one another, that’s not who we should be as Christians. That’s not who we should be. As followers of Jesus, that is definitely not who we should be.
And the fact that the name of Jesus was used to justify this, the fact that the concept of, conservative evangelicalism was used to defend this is. Is devastating and painful. And it’s a wonder, I told my wife and this may sound really crass or just blunt. But I told my wife, I said, if this was.
People of color who had done the exact same thing, we would be [00:29:00] talking about a massacre
Paul Swearengin: or Muslims
Jeremy Coleman: or, just any people of color, any yes. Yeah. And people of other religions. Yeah. That’s a great point. We would have number one, there would have never been seven. Seven guards and a guy who had donut like that, it would have been full on national guard would have been there when people showed up.
It would have never allowed it to be a light patrol day, whatever, in the first place. But then if the barricades were even pushed, you wouldn’t, you would have seen devastation. You would have seen, It just doesn’t match. It just doesn’t match. And we have got to stop being okay with it and we can never be, we can never be desensitized to it.
See, that’s the problem is we have become sensitized to it. And all of a sudden this is just Oh, it is what it is. . We have got to stop being okay with it. Yeah.
Paul Swearengin: Yeah. And I guess, it is important that we acknowledge there were officers doing their job. There’s the video of the one police officer that, that drew the [00:30:00] crowd away from the Senate chambers.
That guy is a stud, he is my hero today. And we see that, okay. Pictures of the officers in the Senate chamber who are pointing their guns through that door, I. That’s not a job I ever want to have where I have to pull a gun from my holster and make a choice of somebody’s life on a given day for my job.
So I do, we do acknowledge that and one officer lost his life. Yeah
Jeremy Coleman: and we definitely do acknowledge that. And we’re grateful for that service. And, the the police officers you’re talking about that was like standing between a, the angry mob and the Senate chamber was also a guy that served this country.
In the military as well. And what an incredible young man who loves our country, that man loves this country. You want to talk about loving this country and loving the constitution or whatever patriotic things you want to talk about. That’s it right there. That guy’s American is Apple pie and baseball man.
Paul Swearengin: I believe those people have every right. The people that were [00:31:00] there that day had every right to be on the street. Making their voice heard and all of that. And even to March down to the Capitol, they had every right to do that. But the second you start going through barricades and, somebody has to be rational enough to say, Hey, we are now breaking out windows in the nation’s Capitol.
This is not okay. This is not who we are,
Jeremy Coleman: but you’re talking about irrational people that have been buying. And trading with the lies of the precedent of the United States. Why I let that sink in? When have you sat and watched a president consistently spew fallacy after fallacy and work up a base to the point where they go attack the capital.
And so those people are done with logical reasoning. Trump appointed judges shut down [00:32:00] every single case, 60 some odd 72 maybe cases that hit courts across this country, all the way up to the Supreme court of which president Trump appointed three justices. And there was no legitimacy to any of it.
Paul Swearengin: and I think this is, I think you and I have been talking about whatever voice we have, what does that voice look like going forward for the church? Because that president we’re talking about has been endorsed and defended and protected by our leaders.
And I even heard from somebody yesterday, That their pastor of their church from the pulpit yesterday said this was Antifa and black lives matter doing this yesterday. So we are, we have put ourselves in a position and by we, I say the evangelical church, because those are my people and that’s who I get to speak into.
And I pastored in wa senior pastor, one of their churches for 10 years and know that mentality. And we have set up people to be deceived in this way in many [00:33:00] ways. With a whole lot of different ways that we could go into how we get people groomed to believe these things Q Anon and the like that we should be absolutely repudiating loudly today.
But with your voice and you have 60, what, 68, some thousand followers on Tik TOK, you have people that trust you, how do you think you use your voice going forward to see. I trust that you still love the church and want it to be the best it can be. So what do you think that message looks like going forward?
Jeremy Coleman: I still love the church because that’s
Paul Swearengin: the big C church we’re saying that the brotherhood of churches across
Jeremy Coleman: America. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They even while we specifically talk about the church in America, when we talk about the church that, you know, that really. Is the church across the world know, but
Paul Swearengin: trust me, my, my British friends of the church are sending me text on a regular basis, said what in the heck is going on with you guys
Jeremy Coleman: as they should be?
Yeah, it’s [00:34:00] yeah, I
Paul Swearengin: an easy question for you to answer, huh?
Jeremy Coleman: I do love the church. And the reason that I continue to love the church is because for all of her marks and imperfection, she is still the bride of Christ and and what she can be. And it’s why I love our country too.
Because what she can be. Can be something so beautiful and incredible and world changing and something that’s impacting lives for the better every day. And so I passionately believe that. Yeah. So as I continue to speak, I think we hit, I don’t know, 76,000 today or something crazy like that.
Which is nuts on Tucson. It’s insane.
Paul Swearengin: 76.5. I’m looking right now. Nice,
Jeremy Coleman: cool. And but as I continue to speak into those the lives of those people and the people [00:35:00] around me and in my circles, thing that I’m going to continue to talk about is how. Our actions and our heart need to look like Jesus.
And that means that sometimes we’re going to. Meet people with love and grace. Sometimes that is that feels extremely undeserved and but that we should be people of love. We should be people that have grace. We should be people who fight for the betterment of our fellow man and to continue to raise one another up.
And I think that. As we continue to have those conversations, sometimes that means that things are going to have to be called out within the church. Things that have stood for too long, that we’ve allowed to fester and grow into. Monsters within the church. And so we’re going to have hard conversations.
We’re going to have to love better and we’re [00:36:00] going to have to speak better. And So I think as I look forward and talk about the days ahead I think there needs to be a lot of balm given to those who’ve been hurt and broken by the church. But I think we still need to continue to call out these things and burn down these things that have gotten us to this place.
And to And and never let them be a part of who we are as followers of Jesus again.
Paul Swearengin: I think something that’s important in that Jeremy too is, I don’t know a Christian that wants to be hateful and condemning and I tell people on a regular basis, like your language. Is hateful and condemning and they’re like, I don’t hate or condemn anybody.
And I’m like but to the people that are hearing you speak or share what you’re sharing on social media or commenting on my page age, they hear hate and condemnation. And so it doesn’t matter what your intention is. They’re receiving it that way. And yeah, I just think there’s going to have to be some really [00:37:00] hard conversations about, we may have to accept some people.
That don’t look like what we think they should look like. And we may have to love some people that don’t look very lovely and our grid of what Christian ought to be. And I really think that’s what God is challenging the heart of the church within a lot of ways. And in some ways what we’re seeing as the response of the church and that’s leaders and the people in it, we’re saying.
Hell, no Jesus just like Peter, and when Jesus said Peter, eat those animals and go hang out with that. Roman, his answer was, hell no, Lord. I’m not going to do that because my Bible, my interpretation of the Bible tells me not to. And. And Jesus ultimately said, do you get to decide that or do I get to decide that?
And that’s what I think Jesus is saying to us today in some ways. And it’s a very hard question because I know all the theology of everybody else, but I still think God is saying, don’t call that person on clean. I want you to go sit with them. I want you to lose your reputation for them. I want you to [00:38:00] lose your job for them.
Then you can start to ask questions about how they live their life, but first you connect with them and you connect them with the father and let’s see where it goes from there.
Jeremy Coleman: Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. And I think, it was like I’ve gotten some pretty wild Messages and comments.
And, I think at times it’s stressful as you, grow a following on social media. And, I had I had somebody calling places that I’ve worked in the last several years, looking for me, I’m saying they were coming to Oklahoma and they were going to find me and this kind of stuff.
And and I remember having friends saying. Maybe is it worth it? This seems like a lot of stress. You’ve always got to think about the new thing to say and the best way to speak into people’s lives. And then to couple that it’s all this hate and this drama and all this, and it isn’t worth it.
And man, I’m, I just, I, my response to that is I’m really [00:39:00] glad that when the first when the first wind of a difficulty blew that Jesus, didn’t just fold like a cheap tent. But that he lived out his ministry and then he continued to face the ridicule and the persecution and all of the things that Jesus face, they haven’t come in and carried me away.
And and tried to execute me yet.
Paul Swearengin: How are you doing that processing? And what advice would you have for people who are distressed by what we’re seeing today?
Jeremy Coleman: People who are like what do you mean clarify a little bit, sorry.
Paul Swearengin: As you’re dealing with, these different opinions coming at you that I hear that from a lot of people there’s strife in their family over politics. And then of course seeing what we saw on Wednesday, I think a lot of people are looking for answers and trying to figure out how do I process all of this going on.
And so even as you’re then taking comments from 76,000 followers, how are you? How are you processing all of that and how are you [00:40:00] keeping yourself from not losing hope and being too distressed and all the
Jeremy Coleman: middle of that? Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. I Try to stay as grounded as possible. Having honest conversations with people in my inner circle, my wife two or three folks that I’m that I’m on staff with at church that are really great about pouring into my life.
They’re good about, they’re good about watching my content. A video might get 40 50. 60,000 views, maybe a hundred thousand views or whatever. And I may think it’s the greatest video in the world and they’re like calling me going, Hey, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that?
Tweak critique, and that kind of thing, which is always good, not just from a content standpoint, but then also they’re doing a really good job of going, Hey, Just keep speaking the truth. You’re saying the right things here, your voice matters. When my wife looks at me and goes, people need to hear what you’re saying.
That is that fills my cup. That, that she’s your voice is important. You have to keep talking. And yeah. I could get wrapped [00:41:00] up in all the negativity, all the hate, all the frustration the grenades getting lobbed in the middle of the room by, people who are either running into my DMS and saying things or saying stuff in comments or, yeah.
All of those things I could get wrapped up in that, or I could get wrapped up in these people who I know have my best interest in heart at heart. They have the best interest of the church at heart. Yeah. And they care about the message. They care about my wellbeing. And so it’s all about community and that’s why I’m still a very firm believer in the church.
You asked me earlier, why do I still love the church? It’s the bride of Christ and we were created to be in community together. And so it’s that community aspect of people who are just continuing to love and encourage and lift me up and speak truth into my life. It’s
Paul Swearengin: so good. So good. I love that answer.
That’s brilliant. And so how do people find you on Tik TOK? And are you doing any other social media platforms that you would like to invite people to?
Jeremy Coleman: Just just to talk Jeremy radio that’s that’s the best place to find me. And you can you can [00:42:00] go follow me on there.
And like I said, my, my direct messages are open to anybody. We don’t have to follow each other back. So you can always personally communicate with me. I try to get to as many of those as possible. And that’s the best way to contact me. And yeah, that’s good for you.
Paul Swearengin: Hang out. At Jeremy C radio and we will be letting people know shortly, but that you and I and another tick talker April a joy who I’ve had on the podcast before we’re going to do a little something together.
Jeremy Coleman: I, so I was curious about how much of that we were divulging. That’s why I was hesitant because I didn’t know. So yes. April Paul and I are going to be doing a live stream. It just tell them sure.
Paul Swearengin: If you feel confident to do it I’m okay with it. Yeah, sure.
Jeremy Coleman: So we’re going to be doing, we’re going to be doing a little we’re doing a live stream.
W what? Wednesday nights. It’s a nine on the East coast. Six on six on the West. Is that right? Yep. And then eight o’clock here in the central [00:43:00] because none of us could live in proximity to each other. But so that’ll be on Wednesday nights, we’re in live stream that on YouTube. And then we’ll have a Tik TOK account.
That’ll be at evangelical ish that already exists at evangelical ish. And then there’s a link to the YouTube page as well. And then we’ll podcast that for you. And we’re going to make some some collaborative content and stuff and put it on put it on the Tik TOK. It’s gonna be dude.
Paul Swearengin: yeah, it’s going to be fun. And so I just want to say it, and it’s at Jeremy, see radio on Tik TOK, and I agree with your brilliant Dennis Stewart wife, you have a voice that’s really important. And I do believe. That people that look like you and drive trucks like you and live where you live and all those things.
And by the way, I live in the Oklahoma of California and central California. So we’re quite the red state in the middle of the bluest of blue States here. But. I think it’s important that people that look like you share the voice that you’re sharing. So I definitely encourage [00:44:00] people to go check out your tick tock page and see your stuff.
Cause I think it’s a very important voice in the season. So thank you for what you’re doing
Jeremy Coleman: well, and I’m grateful for you as well. And it’s good to have community of folks like, I mean like you and April and the reason that we are coming together to speak is because the things that we believe that.
Need to be said for our culture and for our communities are true in Tennessee. They’re true in Oklahoma. They’re true in California. And. And I’m grateful for your content as well for your brotherhood. And I’m looking forward to just where the next the next several months takes us.
And as we move into, hopefully, a new and exciting season, not only in our country, but just for for Christianity as well, that that God would be glorified in a beautiful way.
Paul Swearengin: That’s awesome. Awesome. All right. Jeremy, thanks so much for being with me on the podcast and yeah.
Everybody who’s listening, we just bless your it’s. It’s okay to think it’s okay to know people differently than that, that think differently than you. In fact, I would [00:45:00] implore you. And Jeremy, you can jump in on this. I would implore you meet somebody who believes differently than you have coffee, socially distanced coffee with somebody that is a part of a different religion, a different political party, a different mindset than you.
I think it’s key to knowing the true will of God in the season and his heart for people.
Jeremy Coleman: For sure. Yeah. I think that’s absolutely right. And, you It’s hard to hate people when you’re sitting kneecap to kneecap with them and either, having coffee or even over zoom, you talk about during the pandemic, but just sitting down and having honest relationship conversation gives you a different perspective.
And I think that’s I think that’s really good, Paul. I like that
Paul Swearengin: good stuff. Jeremy Coleman. Thanks for being with us.
Jeremy Coleman: I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.