Losing Hope w/ Christian Culture, But Not Losing Peace

In our regular “Saturday Morning Coffee with Paul and Ashley” the Swearengins talk about how “hope” is getting tougher to hold onto as our culture continues to darken. But, never fear, peace they have a lot of!

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Transcript of Podcast

(Transcribed by AI, not 100% accurate…)

P&A Not Filled With Hope, But Filled With Peace
Paul Swearengin: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] good
[00:00:00] Ashley Swearengin: [00:00:00] morning, everyone. Happy Saturday. Thanks for, for flipping your phone on or your device and hanging out with us for just a few minutes.
[00:00:07]even though we’re not in person, just seeing the names pop up on the phone, it makes me feel like we’re actually hanging out together this morning. So that’s fun.
[00:00:16] Paul Swearengin: [00:00:16] So initially saying good morning. So good morning to a nation. Yeah.
[00:00:19]
[00:00:19] Ashley Swearengin: [00:00:19] We’re just letting her hair down. so this is the nonpartisan evangelical. Paul is the nonpartisan evangelical. I’m his wife, Ashley, and, We love to hang out together. We love to visit with many of you on this thread. And, and just talk about what’s going on in society and in culture today, whether we’re talking about broadly our nation, the nation’s politics and how, evangelicalism and religion is really infecting and affecting, the way society thinks about God.
[00:00:47] And, so we were,
[00:00:49] Paul Swearengin: [00:00:49] that’s an interesting word,
[00:00:51] Ashley Swearengin: [00:00:51] effective. And so we just want to take that apart together, and we together want to put on display what we understand to be God’s heart [00:01:00] for people. And so that’s what we do on Saturday mornings. Plus you can follow Paul throughout the week to NPE podcast.com, sign up first email insider’s list, subscribe to the cast and, yeah, we’re just want to be entertained and watching.
[00:01:13]Paul, do Duke it out, with, with religious people who are very upset that we dare suggest that Jesus may not be a Republican like yo if you ever want to just engage and watch some people go at Paul on that topic, follow him. Cause it’s very entertaining and painful
[00:01:30] Paul Swearengin: [00:01:30] entertaining for some, not so entertaining for others.
[00:01:37] Not entertaining. I don’t know. Maybe some people are entertained by being pissed off. And so maybe they do find it entertaining.
[00:01:43] Ashley Swearengin: [00:01:43] I think. I think it’s like a whole industry, like indignation the indignation industry. So you provoke people with what you’re putting. Yeah.
[00:01:51] Paul Swearengin: [00:01:51] What did this do?
[00:01:51] Steven’s call it that outrage. He called the Republican party, the party of outrage.
[00:01:57] Ashley Swearengin: [00:01:57] And the, what is it? The grievance,
[00:02:00] [00:02:00] Paul Swearengin: [00:02:00] the aggrieved white party group, grieved white person party or something like that. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:02:05] Ashley Swearengin: [00:02:05] So here we are. And there you are. And, we just wanted to talk this morning.
[00:02:10] I was, I was chatting with Paul last night, we went on a walk because finally, by the way, we live in Fresno, California. So we’re right in the middle of the state. It’s like a great big geographic bowl in the middle of California. And so everything flows in air quality wise and just sits in this huge Valley that is the San Joaquin Valley.
[00:02:27] So as probably from following the news, or if you live in California, the state’s been on fire. on the coast, Northern California, just everywhere and all the smoke comes here. So anyway, we couldn’t walk all last week. It was like, I couldn’t hardly even go to the mailbox without getting a headache.
[00:02:42] Finally, the air is cleared up a little bit. So we went for a walk last night. Thank goodness.
[00:02:47] Paul Swearengin: [00:02:47] Yeah. Plus it’s been about 162 degrees.
[00:02:50] Ashley Swearengin: [00:02:50] Yeah. Last week was a hundred and. Eight to 111 every single day plus smoke. So it’s been pretty [00:03:00] nasty. Yeah. Where are you finding hope?So anyway, so we go on a walk last night, I asked what I think is a really innocent question.
[00:03:07] I say to Paul, I say to my husband, so where are you finding hope this week? what’s your source of hope this week? And you say.
[00:03:14] Paul Swearengin: [00:03:14] I don’t have any hope this week.
[00:03:20] I’ve lost my, some of my ability to have hope this week. Yeah.
[00:03:24] Ashley Swearengin: [00:03:24] Yeah. So that led to a really interesting conversation. I think, as you are just characteristically a bringer of hope. And, I’m very buoyed by that. And so at first I was maybe thrashing a little bit from the idea of my husband is not finding hope this week.
[00:03:39] And then as we talked about it, I came to appreciate, that, yeah, it was okay. that you were grieving some really important things that. I don’t know that really should make us sad. So maybe say more about that.
[00:03:51] Paul Swearengin: [00:03:51] So I don’t, I guess I would say I don’t have hope, but I have peace. and I think where I struggle to have [00:04:00] hope right now is I see so many people that have been trapped into this mindset of, I have to be.
[00:04:09] From this extreme position and in the white evangelical church, it is an extreme right wing position that we not only feel like it’s the ideological choice, but it is the only logical choice and the only godly choice. And so because of it, the response of people to somebody like me that says, no, I actually think God may look at this a different way is not like, Oh, that’s an interesting opinion that I disagree with.
[00:04:36] No, it is literally I had a friend saying, I don’t think you’re. Worshiping Jesus anymore. or he said, you’re worshiping a different Jesus than I am too, which I probably should have responded. yes. I actually think I am worshiping a different Jesus than you are. because I think there’s one that’s been created by humanity.
[00:04:55] That is a white blue eyed. Okay. American Jesus. That’s really [00:05:00] not the actual Jesus. And yeah, so I, my. My ability to hope for our culture, that this can be changed and have a breakthrough that is starting to go away a little bit. and particularly, it just feels like it’s ratcheted up.
[00:05:16] The whole spirit of it has ratcheted up in the last few weeks. And maybe it’s the election, or maybe it’s. Spiritually, that’s what’s supposed to happen. That humanity goes to the conclusions of those things, but I, but I have peace that this is of what humanity has to draw towards.
[00:05:33] And if we put it into biblical spiritual terms that it’s, God’s mercy to let us come to the conclusion of our heart desire so we can see what that conclusion looks like. and in his mercy, he’ll draw us to repentance from that. So I think a season of repentance is coming, but as I’ve seen in the Bible, that season of repentance is usually preceded by pretty calamitous times.
[00:05:57] And so I feel like, yeah, this is [00:06:00] great. God’s going to get our attention. And by his mercy kind of draws to a change of this mindset, but history shows us in the Bible shows us that sometimes those are pretty turbulent times to get there. Yeah.
[00:06:13] Particular IssuesAshley Swearengin: [00:06:13] Yeah. do you want to say a little bit more, maybe make it a little more concrete in terms of what you’re seeing, what you’re assessing, just social media, whatever you’re consuming, that’s causing you to feel like?
[00:06:26]wow. there’s really some pretty dark stuff that’s coming forward. Can you be more specific about that?
[00:06:32] Paul Swearengin: [00:06:32] You mean like particular sort of conversations on Facebook and topics?
[00:06:36] Ashley Swearengin: [00:06:36] Maybe. maybe.
[00:06:37]Paul Swearengin: [00:06:37] obviously what’s going on in places like Kenosha, Wisconsin are drawing a lot of emotion and then, and our issues that we can talk about deeply.
[00:06:49] I don’t think that God is in favor of riots and burning businesses, but I think what the Bible shows us is that. In stories like the woman [00:07:00] caught in adultery, that Jesus would say in a situation like that, like yes, what the woman did is wrong, but I’m way more concerned about the system you guys have put into place that drove her to that place.
[00:07:12] Like your religious cultural, governmental, the system has provided the environment where she has no other choice than to then to do this to live. And he would say, I’m way more concerned. About the system you’ve put together, then I am concerned about her action. And so when I look at something like Kenosha, both theaters generally, and just logically, I look at it and say, man, there’s an underlying issue that’s being expressed from right now and not completely in a healthy manner.
[00:07:42] But let’s go after the systemic change to make sure that we don’t continue to perpetuate a system that erupts at various times in our history, again, like this soar cultural history that we put a bandaid on and we say, okay, now we’re okay, but it’s going to get infected [00:08:00] again and erupt. And so we’re just in another time of infection.
[00:08:04] What happened in the sixties was the good people of culture said, come on more law and order, let’s get more law in order. Let’s shut down these hippies and these crazy people in these black Panthers so that we can just get back to the normal that we all love. And history has shown. That was a very poor position to come from.
[00:08:23] And it feels like today we’re going through the same thing that once again, people are like, can we just, and so one of the things that I, that. That was said on my page this week was about the young man, the 17 year old, that shot somebody on my page that I wish he had shot more people deserve to die.
[00:08:42] And I just thought, Oh my God, that’s a horrifying sentiment. Even if you feel the young man was totally justified in the shooting to not be horrified, that one human being killed another so publicly and graphically. But then to say, I wish he had killed more. And not be [00:09:00] able to see wow, where is that coming from inside of me and this being a person that I know has great faith, it just makes me say, wow, this mindset, the spirit, the spiritual condition in the oven gelical church is so prevalent and has so much influence over how people respond to things that we’re really seeing.
[00:09:22] Some ugly dark stuff come up. and it’s actually what we’ve seen in the history of our country and of Western civilization, but also. All throughout the Bible. So it’s not actually unique or stunning to God, but it’s still stunning to me every time it pops itself up.
[00:09:38] Jesus and JerusalemAshley Swearengin: [00:09:38] Okay. So that’s a good example of why you would be like all of us, w would grieve over the heart condition that says, I wish he would have shot more.
[00:09:47]that’s yeah, that is, somebody might dismiss that and say Oh, that was someone just popping off on social media. And if there weren’t. mountains and mountains of other similar expressions these days, then maybe you could dismiss [00:10:00] that, but like that really brings it home.
[00:10:02]that’s the condition that we’re in. okay. So talk a little bit about, you were saying last night, this feels like the same way that Jesus felt, before he, as as he looked out over Jerusalem before he. wrote into Jerusalem and ultimately then was crucified. so talk a little bit about that.
[00:10:21] Cause you were. Saying some things last night that I had not fully understood, like the condition Jesus was in when he, like, when I read my NIV, which is a version of the Bible, like kind of standard evangelical, like eighties kid going to church camp. That’s what we did. We read the NIV. And the way that moment is expressed in the way I always remember it’s actually, one of my favorite passages in the Bible is just like, thinking about how Jesus felt as he looked out over Jerusalem.
[00:10:48]but it always seemed like a neat and tidy and Oh, I would have gathered you is like a mother hen. it seems, it seemed really quaint. And then last night you were saying like, no, actually the text expresses something different. So I thought that was interesting.
[00:11:00] [00:11:00] Paul Swearengin: [00:11:00] So this is in, the chap Matthew chapter 23.
[00:11:03] And I’m reading from the English standard version, which is my favorite version of the Bible right now, which will probably change someday along the way. But so Matthew 2337, what’s happening is Jesus is going into Jerusalem and we believe he has some understanding that he’ll never leave Jerusalem again.
[00:11:21]this is it. He’s going to hit the culmination of his ministry. And it’s going to culminate in these. This religious system, killing him and having him executed. And so as he’s coming into the city, people shouting here, he comes, they think he’s the Messiah coming the Pharisees say, Hey, tell your people not to yell this out.
[00:11:38]that’s heresy. And he says, no, if they don’t cry out, the rocks are gonna cry out. So all of that is happening and he comes over the Hill. And he sees Jerusalem. and so Matthew 2337, this is Jesus talking. He says, Oh, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones, those who are sent to it, how often would I have gathered your children to [00:12:00] as Hinz as a hen, gathers her brood under her wings and you were not willing.
[00:12:06]and so I think I need to go back a few verses. Maybe I’m looking at the wrong passage anyway. It’s and another version, another part of the story in the Bible, we’re told that he came over and saw the city and wept. And yeah, like you’re saying, the story we read is Jesus came over Jerusalem and he’s Oh man, Jerusalem, we could have done something here, but I know.
[00:12:27]but if you really dig into what that passage is saying, the version of the word wept, how we interpreted as wept. Is actually a word in the original Greek in which it was written said that he was wailing, yeah, and pain and other parts of the Bible, the same word is used to describe these people.
[00:12:48] These women who are mourning the death of a young girl, and they were mourning to such a degree that Jesus had to clear them out of the room so he could heal the girl. He had to get rid of these mourners because they’re wailing. [00:13:00] Was so distracting that he couldn’t do the healing. So it wasn’t just, he had a tear, like the old commercial where people threw the trash and the native American with was wiping a tear.
[00:13:11]this is Jesus. Yeah. another place when Peter denied Jesus, three times, it says he went out and wept bitterly. Same word. This is Jesus. one, one commentator. I saw it. It said, it’s a word that says as to be sick to your stomach. You’re so grieved with something that you’re sick to your stomach.
[00:13:29] So Jesus was looking over Jerusalem and I think his sense was like, I’m saying today, Okay, Jerusalem. There’s no hope now your fate is sealed and we’re going to go forward to this end of your human condition. And Oh, I’m just so heartbroken for that. And that’s what I think I’m feeling over our culture is we had chances to make different decisions along the way.
[00:13:52] But what we’re seeing now, the division, the really deep vitriolic against each other is just a natural conclusion of where our humanity is [00:14:00] going. And it actually is going to be a part of God’s merciful work to get our attention back again and turn our eyes back to him.
[00:14:08] Ashley Swearengin: [00:14:08] So
[00:14:09] Paul Swearengin: [00:14:09] it’s painful in the process.
[00:14:10] It was very painful for Jesus. He was some, one commentator, I’m sorry to interrupt you a bit, but it ultimately said. Jesus was almost to the point of vomiting. He was so
[00:14:21] Ashley Swearengin: [00:14:21] upset. He was retching. Yeah. that’s a not pleasant. it makes me actually really just want to sit here and bawl my eyes out.
[00:14:31]yeah, so this is real, and I think we, I think it’s important to put words on this. and let, that’s what you’re doing. quite literally you are putting words out there saying, Hey, everybody look at this and see look at the choices we’re making. look at how far we have walked away from, the God of the Bible.
[00:14:48] And what’s expressed by the life of Jesus and how he sees us and whatever. so yeah, so I’d be curious what people who are watching may think, is this a time of grieving? Like how and how do you [00:15:00] practically process those feelings? what all are we supposed to be taking on?
[00:15:06]as people who are saying yes to what God wants and who are just like maybe a little unsure of what that might look like, but leaning in and just saying, Oh God, please do your work here. Get us through this, do your work here. And don’t let us. Just put the bandaid on, but really allow all this to come up so we can make different choices.
[00:15:25]that’s a long
[00:15:26] Paul Swearengin: [00:15:26] way. Yeah.
[00:15:27] Ashley Swearengin: [00:15:27] It’s a long way of saying, I don’t know. Maybe those are people who would say yeah, they’re nonpartisan or their religion. Isn’t there, their faith. Isn’t tied to politics maybe as another way to start. So yeah, practically speaking, what all are we supposed to be carrying in this?
[00:15:41] How do we do that? Practically
[00:15:43] Don’t let lost relationships take away desire for truthPaul Swearengin: [00:15:43] three. And that’s interesting. I’m sure some of you have lost relationships through this. I’ve heard from a lot of things, people that, they’re alert, they lose relationships through that in certainly that’s been our experience. We’ve lost relationship, but so I guess one of the things I want to say an encouragement, it’s don’t let that [00:16:00] take you away from hungering for truth.
[00:16:04] And going after what’s truly God’s heart for the season. And whenever it starts to interrupt our relationships and I hear people a lot say, we just can’t talk about politics around the Thanksgiving table at all. And so whatever it takes to cope with that. But so I think we’re, we are really supposed to feel the pain for one, don’t try to say, Oh, father, forgive them.
[00:16:24] They know not what they do or some other platitude. Like really feel the pain of losing relationship and say that really does hurt. Because I think if we try to cover it up and not be real and present with the pain, then we make choices to not really go after what we’re doing. yeah. I don’t know.
[00:16:44] Is that answering your question at all? I’m I’m doing real time processing here.
[00:16:48] Ashley Swearengin: [00:16:48] It does. And I think, people have different ways of feeling the pain. I will say for me, just to, again, try to make this really practical. Whoa. I, I actually like to write things down, so I’ll journal [00:17:00] and, and I will pretend not pretending I am actually like, it’s like kinda praying for me, I imagine that what I’m writing, I am, I’m actually saying it directly to God.
[00:17:11] And, and then I just pay attention to what comes up in that process. So I think that’s one just really helpful thing is like, write things down it’s you kinda got to get it up and out. And, for me, when I do that, I noticed usually my first and I do a little bit of stream of consciousness around whatever I’m trying to bring to the table in that moment.
[00:17:30] And I’ll notice that it’s like a, a rusty pipe that you gotta flush it before the water starts running clean. It takes me a little while to get really honest about what I’m thinking and feeling. And so normally it starts off with this is what I think you want to hear from me, God, or this is like a polite way to say this, or this is the politically correct way.
[00:17:48] Or I feel like someone’s looking over my shoulder. And so I’m making sure I say this the right way. And once I get that out of my system, then I can just let it flow. yeah. So for me, that’s a really important part of processing pain. [00:18:00] And then there’s just to me like an exercise of prayer that is just Oh God, let me see this situation the way you see it.
[00:18:08] And let me have your heart for this moment instead of like my own. so if that’s helpful for people who are watching like, and others may have other suggestions on. what do you do to make sure you’re not holding onto it, such that it affects your behavior and your outlook? Cause that’s not healthy either.
[00:18:22] And let’s be real. None of us are God. None of us can actually, we cannot manipulate and bring about the kind of. Heart change that we’re asking God to let us move to all we can do is just remain in a posture of yes. For that. So keeping that pipe running clear. Changing mindsets of the church
[00:18:41] Paul Swearengin: [00:18:41] Yeah. That’s one of the conclusions I’ve come through in this season is I’m not going to be able to talk people out of this mindset.
[00:18:47]it’s like the religious people of the day when Jesus was on earth that he said they just don’t have eyes to see ears to hear anymore. It’s a common curse in the Bible that, When we see Pharaoh, like he first starts [00:19:00] saying Pharaoh hardened his heart when those plagues started coming. And then at the end of the saying, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart.
[00:19:05] So it’s almost God lets us go to the full conclusion of where we are. So I don’t feel like I can talk people out of that because they just were, we’re speaking from just two different planets. And so I have to be okay with that. But what I really love about you, what you said as a practicality, there is you just took.
[00:19:23] You took the Psalmus model. That’s really what the songs are, is there’s this formal start of, Oh Lord in heaven, yada, whatever. And then there’s just this full on vomiting on the table. Grievance of I’m hurting so bad. And where are you? God. And why don’t you do something and why don’t you intervene?
[00:19:42] Why are my enemies flourishing? And I’m yelling and just those real human gritty emotions. And I think those are so good. And then the songs always inevitably end with, but your God and where else am I going to go? But to you. And so I think that’s a [00:20:00] really healthy exercise you’re talking about.
[00:20:02] Being a different voiceAshley Swearengin: [00:20:02] I, thank you. I, the other thing I would say is I, we find ourselves in this, we are constantly. Considering national, what’s going on with national politics and religion and it feels so big. And then of course, if you’re talking about the whole country, you’re talking about the whole world because of the, our countries outsized influence on the rest of the world.
[00:20:23] So it just feels so global for a second. we process this stuff. We try to align our hearts differently and yeah. do whatever we just said. talk through it. Write it out, all of that. And then I think another thing for us that’s really practical is like, how are we showing up in our own little community?
[00:20:42] And so whether that is your church family or your employment situation, or, whatever, for us being really active in economic and community development in the greater Fresno region, it like being able to show up differently to a table that has a diverse group of people there and be like, [00:21:00] Hey.
[00:21:00]God doesn’t call us to be like the angry white Christians that are like, pounding the table for law and order. We actually get to show a different facet of, actually I shouldn’t, that’s not even a facet of God at all. I shouldn’t have say a different thousand of guns. I don’t think that’s
[00:21:14] Paul Swearengin: [00:21:14] God’s voice at all
[00:21:15] Ashley Swearengin: [00:21:15] in the city.
[00:21:15] You want to edit that out, but, I think that’s another practical thing for us is whatever community we find ourselves in, or you find yourself in. Being a different voice and, and just kinda stopping conversations cold, w that, with the people who may want to pull on that thread of the aggrieved angry white.
[00:21:34] Christian boy, Oh, everything’s going to go to hell. If we don’t reelect a certain candidate, be the person who’s wow, I really see things differently. And so that’s another just practical.
[00:21:45] Paul Swearengin: [00:21:45] I think that’s a big part of what we’re trying to do is, you had a friend that sent you a text this week. That’s from. A community. Yeah. Color. If we can say that in our, and he said, I’m just, I’m so hurting from watching [00:22:00] what my Christian friends are saying on Facebook about, and that this was directly about Kenosha and about, Jacob Blake and.
[00:22:09] And maybe that’s some of what we’re trying to reflect to our white evangelical Christian friends is maybe you don’t have proximity to some of the people that we’ve been privileged to get to know in this season that then text us and say, Oh, I’m hurting so badly from what I’m reading. Maybe you don’t understand that.
[00:22:28] What, when you put some of those things on Facebook, you’re you are our brothers and sisters from our black Brown. What’s the word we learned this B pock. Yeah. I love learning these terms, which means black indigenous people of color we learned this week, how much we’re hurting their hearts when we do some of these things.
[00:22:48]and that should that matter to us. If Jesus said you’ve heard it say don’t murder, but I say, if you call your brother a full you’re, the one that deserves hell fire. And is there a chance that he would be saying [00:23:00] to us today, you can be 100% right. On your ideological stance, but if you don’t care that you’re hurting your brother’s heart or your sister’s heart, then you’re a hundred percent wrong, a hundred percent wrong.
[00:23:12] And that’s what we’re trying to say is our ideological, theological purity become more important to us than standing with real human beings around us who are hurting and. And I think the answer is yes. And so I love to be able to interact with, have proximity with people who believe differently than me.
[00:23:31] And it, it comes back to one other point. We like make one of the, Leticia, one of our friends, she commented on our live here. And she said, I’ve lost so much faith in God right now, because of this Republican stance of the church. And so I want to say to Latisha. That’s not God.
[00:23:50] Yes, there are earthly representations of God, but that’s not who God is. Don’t lose faith in God. God is still, God is this amazing creator of the [00:24:00] universe that says you get to have personal connection with all of the universe and with all people and not have to be exclusive of any of those.
[00:24:07] So don’t lose faith in God, just because humanity is not representing him. And to however angelical friends, I say, please hear what Latisha is saying. She’s her faith is going away because of this ideology of the white evangelical right-wing church, we are hurting the gospel. That’s the message we’re trying to put out there on an ongoing basis.
[00:24:32] We’re not saying you have to vote this way or the other. We certainly have strong feelings about that, but you don’t even have to change that. It’s just, what is the heart? That you’re coming from. And does it matter if even your right words are hurting people around you?
[00:24:47] Ashley Swearengin: [00:24:47] Yeah, that’s I appreciate Latitia for sharing that and, and honestly I can totally understand it’s it.
[00:24:54]I have to navigate this jungle path to as a person who, has. [00:25:00] been a Christian since I was four years old and had a very active, have had a very active faith, a lot of prayer, a lot of just living that life. I will tell you going into prayer these days, it is harder.
[00:25:14] It is harder because I’m thinking through Whoa, people in my own, broadly speaking faith community, what they’re representing right now. Like I don’t. I don’t align with that. That hurts my heart. So how do it’s a huge thing to navigate around and, I would like to think I’m not a preacher’s kid, I’m a preacher’s wife.
[00:25:32] Like I should be able to just be like, Oh no, I can see the difference between, and it’s hard for me. so I think this is very real and I think this is part of why we just want to come together regularly and. The nonpartisan evangelical for us is like, Hey, let’s at least put a flag out that here’s a place where we hope people would gather and, and feel safe and be able to come into relationship with one another and continue to seek God together in a way that is different from maybe what we’re [00:26:00] seeing in the white, political right.
[00:26:03] Evangelical church. not that we expect that we’re the only way there’s a lot of, there are a lot of people I think, across the country and world, thankfully that are. They’re doing the same thing. So thank God. Find your gathering place. If this is it for you, we welcome you. and maybe if you’re just watching this for the first time, you’re like, Oh, I’ve never even heard of this thing.
[00:26:21] It’s NPE podcast.com. That’s nonpartisan evangelical podcasts in podcast.com. There’s an insider’s email list you can sign up for. And, there’s just a bunch of different ways. We’re trying to create space for people to have these conversations and make it safe. If my peopleThe last thing I want to just throw out there and then I’m mindful of time.
[00:26:40]and this is a really big topic, so I don’t know how in the world we’re going to get through it, but we have, we’ve talked a lot together about what we call like a corporate repent, intense, and, if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray. And seek my face. So
[00:26:59] Paul Swearengin: [00:26:59] turned from
[00:27:00] [00:26:59] Ashley Swearengin: [00:26:59] there.
[00:27:01] Good ways, which is the language of, turn around, do something different. It is repentance, go the other way. That is repentance. Okay. So I’m asking myself, how would we even know if we’re in a season of corporate repentance? Cause I don’t necessarily think that means every church in America is having.
[00:27:20]Sunday mornings, everyone just on their face, crying out and repenting. Oh, that would be pretty amazing. But I imagined that season of repentance could be going on like just an individual people’s homes and lives. And so I want to understand that better. And I want to be aware of God, how will we know?
[00:27:37] And what w how will we know for, in that season? Have you ever thought about that?
[00:27:40] Paul Swearengin: [00:27:40] I have. and I would say there have been multitudes of church services where white pastors have brought black pastors on the platform and repented, said, I’m sorry, conferences. I think saying, I’m sorry, doesn’t cut it [00:28:00] anymore.
[00:28:00]like you say, Turn from their wicked ways. Repentance means to change your mind and change your direction. So I don’t think words are going to do it. I think it starts with that verse second Chronicles, seven, 14. We quoted all the time in the oven angelical church. So it starts with humbling yourself.
[00:28:18] So how do you humble yourself? How do you Christ demonstrate being humble? It’s you lay down your rights? that’s what my problem is with all of this. We’re going to open while everybody else is asking us to stay closed. that’s not a humble spirit. that’s not the meek shall inherit the earth.
[00:28:36] And the poor in spirit will inherit the kingdom of heaven. Jesus said, I’m not going to fight for my rights. I’m going to lay down my rights. I’m going to say if somebody forces you to go a mile, go two. So humbling yourself. First starts to say, I’m going to lay down my rights and my beliefs. To lean into the messiness of what’s going on, you go on around me.
[00:28:57] So I think that’s where it starts and [00:29:00] the way a pastor can start it from the platform is to say I’ve been wrong and I’m not going to live this way anymore, but then demonstrate it and do something different. and that’s going to mean sometimes you’re going to say, Oh, I see that happening. That doesn’t look good.
[00:29:13] And you say, but I’m going to leave into it rather than rail against it. So to me, that’s what corporate repentance will look like when we start to see churches laying down their rights and saying for the good of the corporate community, a lay down my right. And so some of that is we have to determine if God wants us to do, because there’s actually a theology that I’m running out, running into quite a bit out there, which is Paul.
[00:29:40] The gospel is just about getting individuals to go to heaven. who cares? What happens to the city? Who cares? What happens to the state they’re in the way. But we have to look at that Jesus was looking at Jerusalem saying, Oh, Jerusalem. He didn’t say, if I could just get a few more of you to heaven, that’ll be great.
[00:29:58] And I’ll have done my job. He [00:30:00] said, he grieved over the corporate spirit that had gone awry and said, Oh, I wished I could change this whole thing, but I’m just not going to be able to now. And I think that’s what God wants it to say is Oh, I wish my city of Fresno. Everybody could feel a peace of justice and hope and opportunity.
[00:30:21] And my job is to fight to see that happen, our job as a household. So does that. That’s how I see repentance as we start actually changing how we interact with people on social media. We start laying down our rights and publicly saying, I’m going to stand. With people that look like, maybe I shouldn’t stand with, even if it costs me my reputation to me, that’s what repentance begins to look like.
[00:30:43] Ashley Swearengin: [00:30:43] Yeah. I heard two things in what you just said that I think are really key. The first is the word sacrifice. And you said sacrifice your rights and in a country like ours, that is everything that we [00:31:00] pride ourselves in is our rights. And. And I want to say, we’re not talking necessarily about the governmental side of this.
[00:31:08] We were talking about the attitude of, what sacrifice would you make for other people in your community? Neighborhood city? Yeah, state nation, are you. now I’m starting to go into my doc,
[00:31:23] Paul Swearengin: [00:31:23] which is a great one. I need to develop it a little bit more. We got to talk about
[00:31:26] Ashley Swearengin: [00:31:26] that stuff, but anyway, like just that, so I think as people are maybe hearing this week, maybe just think about that.
[00:31:32]What does sacrifice look likewhat is, what does sacrifice look like? What does sacrifice look like for me in what, where is my attitude? When we say heart, really? We mean attitude, where is my attitude? I’m falling right now. And am I willing to walk in an attitude of submission? Okay. The S word that no American likes to hear.
[00:31:54]but we it’s believers in Jesus, like what he is. like he modeled submission and [00:32:00] sacrifice like literally to the death. And do we have that attitude towards people around us or are we taking up arms to make sure people I have a right, or are we saying. No, actually I’m laying it down.
[00:32:12] Cause I want to listen. I want to hear what I’ve missed in the past. and I want health and healing to come, and that means you have to let go of some stuff to even come into a space to understand what the injustice or the infraction is in the first place. So I heard sacrifice and what you said. And then the other thing I heard was I’m really calling attention to the fact that.
[00:32:33] Our evangelicalism now, today in our country, looks like we accept for, voting a certain way to ensure, Supreme court justices. We turn a blind eye, die to the condition of society. And all we are to think about, talk about, be concerned about is whether or not we can get another notch in our belt of someone praying the sinner’s prayer.
[00:32:56] And so we’ve turned this hyper like [00:33:00] individual and, we have, we’ve turned our back to the collective. Which, as you said, Jesus was always dealing with the collective and also ministering to the individual. He was like doing both. And so that’s something to think about too. does our faith prevent us from seeing the collective society, community, whatever.
[00:33:21] And if so, that’s worth revisiting, that’s worth evaluating and going Oh, maybe there’s more to it. And I know I, once I once heard a definition of leadership is saying no to your friends at a pace that they can receive. And so for people who are in leadership in evangelical communities, wow.
[00:33:37] We understand what it’s, what that’s first of all. And, recognize that you may not be able to go out tomorrow and just be like, that’s it, we’re changing everything. And, although God may call you to do that, but, but I guess we’re just trying to put it out there, Hey, have we created churches in our country?
[00:33:53] That the only thing we care about is the altar call and whether or not someone, so the center’s prayer that week. I don’t know. That’s a [00:34:00] definitely a, huh, let’s think about that.
[00:34:03]Paul Swearengin: [00:34:03] and what does our engagement in civil government look like? sometimes it looks like we believe our responsibility for humanity is winning them to an eternal salvation and from conception to the cutting of the umbilical cord that we’re very concerned about.
[00:34:20] And then we’re done our responsibility for any other responsibility for another human being we call socialism and we shut it down by saying, that’s socialism and they’re making their own choices. And so I think we just have to broaden. Our view of how God looked at civil engagement, how Jesus demonstrated that in his work walk of life at for one story that I always love is there was a temple tax and yeah.
[00:34:45] And Jesus asked Peter who is with him, his friend there he’s Hey, do I owe this tax? And as a rabbi, the answer was no, you don’t. Okay. You don’t know the tax. And so jesus’ response. Wasn’t like, then we’re not going to pay the tax. Gosh, darn it. Because taxes are wrong and evil. [00:35:00] And we’re going to take a stand right now.
[00:35:02] Now his name answer was tell you what, Peter, you go ahead fishing. You’re going to catch a fish and there’s going to be money inside the fish to pay the tax. And we’re going to pay the tax because I don’t want to offend people and have that interrupt my ministry, that offense of fighting for my rights on the tax.
[00:35:20] Is not worth it to interrupt my ability to minister, to the corporate society and to the individuals in there. So again, it comes down to what does it look like to lay down my rights, to lay down my weapons, to trust in God and not horses and chariots and rights and political battles, but to say, Hey, what if the way I’ve been believing idiot logically is getting in the way of my ability to see things.
[00:35:47] From a more godly perspective in the season of being willing to lay down what we’ve always known to be true in order to be able to have deeper relationships and covenant relationships with the [00:36:00] community around it.
[00:36:01] Ashley Swearengin: [00:36:01] I think maybe just to close on this and then, and then we’ll pray for, for folks who are watching, but, if you go to NPE podcasts.com, you’ll see the big head headline.
[00:36:11] On the splash page are these words is God a conservative Republican,
[00:36:19] Paul Swearengin: [00:36:19] and no, my boxes over there.
[00:36:22] Ashley Swearengin: [00:36:22] I get such a kick out of that because if you’re being honest, And if you’re in the evangelical church, that the inside voice is yeah, we of course God’s conservative, Republican, and then you go, Whoa, wait a second.
[00:36:37] Did I just say that? Did I just think that. really what we’re trying to do here, the nonpartisan in the nonpartisan evangelical is we’re trying to untangle. We’re not saying vote this way or that way. that’s look, that’s a totally different conversation. We’ll
[00:36:53] Paul Swearengin: [00:36:53] have that conversation with you. If you want to hang on your
[00:36:56] Ashley Swearengin: [00:36:56] census track and your political history strict, it may not matter when [00:37:00] to vote, but, with the electoral college, but anyway, my point is this, we have to detangle, if you want to vote conservative, but reevaluate, if you think you’re doing it because God told you, or God directs you to like, that’s not it, that’s not it.
[00:37:16] And I appreciate some of the comments I’m seeing, even just now about how, like our hope isn’t in political party. That’s right. Our hope is not in political parties, and unfortunately we have now for almost 50 years, On the center, right side of the political spectrum, we have entangles we have invoked and we have represented that we do what we do, because this is what God wants.
[00:37:40] And we are, we have strayed so far from, who we see God to be in the Bible as manifested by the life of Jesus. And so anyway, okay. Detangled let’s decouple detangle. Start to experience like, Oh, okay. We have freedom to think differently about our politics. You may still ultimately conclude you get to [00:38:00] vote the same way.
[00:38:01] Fine. but don’t represent that. That is a, the 11th commandment thou shalt vote center. Or conservative, like what in the heck? That’s not. Yeah.
[00:38:11] Paul Swearengin: [00:38:11] Yeah. And ask God, show me. if I’m missing it a little bit, if this crazy nonpartisan evangelical thing has any truth to it, God just show that to me.
[00:38:22] A little bit of hopeI do have a little bit of hope I could share in the book. Yeah.
[00:38:26] Ashley Swearengin: [00:38:26] That would be a good way to,
[00:38:27] Paul Swearengin: [00:38:27] so in the middle of calamity for his culture, this writer, Jeremiah a prophet, if you will. he was saying, Hey. Our country is going to be overtaken by our enemies, our culture, and our religion is going to be ransacked.
[00:38:41] It’s all going to be overturned. Any prophet telling you different differently is wrong. here comes our enemies and they’re going to take us all away. And in the middle of all of that, as he’s writing all of that, there’s this one verse, and this is probably the most popular verse in the Bible, other than John three 16, perhaps [00:39:00] that people quote for themselves more often than anything else.
[00:39:03] And it says this in Jeremiah 29 11 for, I know the plans I have for you declares the Lord plans for welfare and not for evil to give you a future and a hope. So in the middle of saying, Hey, yeah, everything’s going wrong. Everything’s going to get worse. Don’t listen to any preacher out there telling you otherwise, but know this, God has a great plan for all of you corporately.
[00:39:30] And that plan is to give you a future and a hope. So that means there’s a purpose. There is something going to happen on the other side of all of this, and you could have great hope in the middle of it. So that’s why today I say, I don’t necessarily have a hope that things are going to change now, but I do have a hope that there’s a post this world that is actually in line with where God wants us to go.
[00:39:54] And maybe we wouldn’t get there without going through some of this in the present. So I guess I do have some hope today [00:40:00] after.
[00:40:00] Ashley Swearengin: [00:40:00] Yeah. And when you say, you’re not saying Oh, it’s eternal life. You mean, we have hope we have an expectation that we will see. Reform that we will see transformation, like in our lifetimes, we believe we work towards that.
[00:40:13] We believe for that we pray for, or that, for now. And we, I’ll just put it in my own words. I think what we’re going through right now, as painful as it is, I do think it’s God’s mercy because would you rather have all this stuff just under the surface, just keeping a wrap on it. Just holding it in.
[00:40:32] We have done for 50 plus years or 400 years, depending on which, how far back you want to go. or is it better that all of this come to the surface so that we can really see the scope, the depth and the breadth of, what’s going on so that we can then say, okay, God, this is not what we want. We are sorry for this.
[00:40:50] We want to do things differently and actually turn a corner and think about the next 5,000, 200, 400 years like that to me is hopeful. And [00:41:00] that’s. that’s what we’re believing for.
[00:41:03] Paul Swearengin: [00:41:03] And you’re not saying God brought COVID to make this happen, or God brought this political system that he didn’t none of that, but allowing sort of our hearts to be revealed and all this ugly stuff to come to the surface, I think God’s way in.
[00:41:17] Ashley Swearengin: [00:41:17] Yeah. I definitely think he’s using all this stuff to help us really see.
[00:41:21] Paul Swearengin: [00:41:21] really distracted by the comments today. I love everybody commenting, but I like. I feel like I need to respond. I need to respond. It’s a, it’s a little distracting. I’m wondering if we need to turn off the comments and everything.
[00:41:32]Ashley Swearengin: [00:41:32] let me just say, there’s a reason why I didn’t wear glasses today. I can’t see anything. So I have no idea what’s on that screen and the phone’s too far away. So I can’t
[00:41:40] Paul Swearengin: [00:41:40] do that. that comments are coming through
[00:41:42] Ashley Swearengin: [00:41:42] with you, the names of people and I can see if I squint, I can see like little things here and there, but.
[00:41:47] Paul Swearengin: [00:41:47] Yeah. And so people keep saying to me like, Oh, why do you call yourself nonpartisan? and all of
[00:41:52] Ashley Swearengin: [00:41:52] it today’s thread.
[00:41:54]Paul Swearengin: [00:41:54] I think there’s something right, but in general, that’s the thing. and I, at the end of the day, we’re [00:42:00] talking to our people and that’s who we’re called to talk to and say, Hey, let’s examine ourselves before you.
[00:42:07] Say other side fix you, fix yourself or all of those things. We’re saying to the, to our people who are the white evangelicals, Hey, let’s look at us before we start telling other people how to change that I think we are at the center of the divide in, in our culture right now. And God is calling us to examine ourselves before we start trying to tell somebody else.
[00:42:31] So that’s why, that’s why we say as God, really a Republican, because. Pretty much everybody we know has believed most of our life that you have to be a Republican to be godly. We had that one moment where we had that one Democrat who was a president that was a Christian, Jimmy, something Carter or something like that.
[00:42:49] But then we ended up not liking him because he was wimpy. He was a Democrat and he was a little wimpy. And so we want our heroes to be, yeah,
[00:42:56] Ashley Swearengin: [00:42:56] I’m telling you if any of y’all want to open that can of worms, [00:43:00] then you’re going to have to just. Sit back for a second, because I will tell you on countless occasions, as I have had conversations with people in a political environment, Who were center, As I asked them, gosh, do you pray for Democrats in California? For example, do you pray, blessing over them? Do you pray revival over, both political parties? Like where are you in terms of like, how you think about people on the opposite political side of the aisle?
[00:43:27] And I have been rebuked. I have been reviled. I have been, Crucified, sorry, too strong. A word.
[00:43:36] Paul Swearengin: [00:43:36] Yeah, maybe a little bit, maybe a little
[00:43:38] Ashley Swearengin: [00:43:38] bit verbally only, is like the cuss word in the Republican party is to be called a rhino, like a Republican in name only, so I have been cursed, because I have suggested that people can love God, across the political spectrum and that, if you’re active on the other side of the political aisle, that can be your expression of faith is like, Boy, you really want to see change in your [00:44:00] community.
[00:44:00] You get politically active. And in our, we, the, in our Republicans, the only ones who can have faith and claim God in the work that they do. And the truth of the matter is if you’re really being honest and you’re in the political world, that we are not supposed to see God and people across the political out, that, that’s true.
[00:44:18] So don’t act like it’s not, that is the truth of how we represent faith in politics on the right side of the Isles. So when we say, Hey, how about we be nonpartisan about our evangelicalism? That’s what we’re calling out. We’re saying decouple those things. It’s an unholy Alliance to marry God to your political party.
[00:44:38] It’s unholy, knock it off. Nonpartisan evangelicalism is the way we choose to express that. Absolutely. So deal with it.
[00:44:46] Paul Swearengin: [00:44:46] Yeah, I think, and if it, if that tweaks you a little bit, I get it. and maybe that’s just an opportunity to say. Okay, God. Why is that tweaking me a little bit and start to work that through?
[00:44:56]not that I have everything right in him above a questioning, [00:45:00] but trust me, I’ve wrestled with that question for a long time. I’m not changing because, any individual comes up and says, Hey, change that. because we thought it through and prayed over it a lot and though no, what we’re trying to do.
[00:45:11] And again, evangelicals, if we. Will seek God pray, seek God, seek his face, turn from our wicked ways, humble ourselves. And I got that all out of order in that verse turn from our wicked ways. It says then that then is a really important word. If you do all of these things, then will I hear from heaven and heal their land?
[00:45:34] And so I think that’s the call on us. And we should say to ourselves first, is that us? Did we need to do those things and have we done it well? And so hopefully we gave some practical tips to be able to do that.
[00:45:47] Ashley Swearengin: [00:45:47] Yeah, I hope so. I hopefully, hopefully we did also share some hope.
[00:45:51] Paul Swearengin: [00:45:51] in a hopeless moment, we’re sharing some hope.
[00:45:53] Ashley Swearengin: [00:45:53] Yeah. All right. we should pray and we should wrap it up because it’s Saturday, you have [00:46:00] other things to do and want to enjoy your weekend, your family time. And
[00:46:04] Paul Swearengin: [00:46:04] we were going to talk a little bit about
[00:46:05] Ashley Swearengin: [00:46:05] Patrion. Yes. Oh, yes, that’s right.
[00:46:08] Paul Swearengin: [00:46:08] Do you want to do that right now?
[00:46:09] Ashley Swearengin: [00:46:09] Okay. Yeah, we can do that.
[00:46:11] Just check the time. Okay. So here’s the plan. we would like to hire a person who can help Paul with just social media content posting some of the technical editing that he has to do, spend a lot of time on, really to free him up, to do more of the writing and just the kind of creative work around nonpartisan evangelical and, And it’s about $250 a month.
[00:46:34] And we’re hoping to raise commitments for about $250 a month. You can go to Patrion and sign up five 99 a month, 1299 a month. You could sign up for,
[00:46:43] Paul Swearengin: [00:46:43] to tell them how to get there.
[00:46:44] Ashley Swearengin: [00:46:44] You have to do that. Cause I find it a little.
[00:46:47] Paul Swearengin: [00:46:47] You go to NPE podcast.com. That’s the website in P podcasts.com. When you get there in the upper right corner is this little button that says.
[00:46:55] Patriot or joining our Patrion community or something like that, but it says [00:47:00] Patrion in it, click on that. It’ll take you right to the website and tells you exactly how to sign it.
[00:47:05] Ashley Swearengin: [00:47:05] So it makes sense. Yes. That’s a lot easier. Thank you. I was thinking you have to go find it on Patriot, but you don’t just
[00:47:10] Paul Swearengin: [00:47:10] go.
[00:47:11] Let’s go to our website and get it from that.
[00:47:13] Ashley Swearengin: [00:47:13] Come click on Patrion. You can sign up. There are a couple of different levels. Five 99 is the lowest, I think 1299. And then there’s an other, if you wanted to do a different amount. You could do eight 99 or whatever it is. but we’re hoping that folks can rally and help us raise that $250 a month.
[00:47:28] We will put that money towards, just hiring a small business owner who can help us
[00:47:33] Paul Swearengin: [00:47:33] pump up social media manager. We’re calling it. Yeah.
[00:47:36] Ashley Swearengin: [00:47:36] Yes. The SMM, the social media,
[00:47:38] Paul Swearengin: [00:47:38] because to get to break through and get people to see what you do on social media. I’m figuring it out. But to do it really well.
[00:47:44] We’ll take about three days a week of my work time. And so then that sort of precludes doing any of the other stuff. So we’ve determined we need this
[00:47:51] Ashley Swearengin: [00:47:51] help to actually have a full time job.
[00:47:53] Paul Swearengin: [00:47:53] I do. I actually coach coaching as well.
[00:47:57] Ashley Swearengin: [00:47:57] In addition to sharing this message through [00:48:00] social media. so thanks everyone.
[00:48:01] I can’t wait to put my glasses on and all the comments, although I guess, or maybe some I don’t want to read,
[00:48:08] Paul Swearengin: [00:48:08] but I will read
[00:48:10] Ashley Swearengin: [00:48:10] them all. and really appreciate you guys engaging with us this morning. And this is what it’s about. And, as Paul said, we don’t necessarily think we always get it right.
[00:48:18]but we are willing to be in this conversation and it’s hard. And, we want to submit our hearts and our thinking, our attitudes. to God and just say, Lord, come and do, come and to what you want to do in our midst and in the midst of our community,
[00:48:32] Paul Swearengin: [00:48:32] I understand you’re here. It’s on you.
[00:48:33] You can make it through without people seeing you. If you want to come on through.
[00:48:37] Ashley Swearengin: [00:48:37] by the way, we have managed to find another corner of our house that we have not used for a backdrop. that’s right. This every weekend, we’re like, Oh gosh, where are we going to shoot today? Cause we’re trying to try to make it interesting and creative for all of you.
[00:48:51]so this is like the opposite side of where we normally sit and,
[00:48:55] Paul Swearengin: [00:48:55] Let me throw out one more thing. Cause we have, so we have this as a prop back here. Yeah. And make it look like a [00:49:00] studio and to cover the blank wall, the microphone. And so one of the things, if you join Patrion is you can hear, I started recording my novel.
[00:49:08] Joseph comes to town when the religious right. Becomes religiously wrong, a recording it as an audio book series, then COVID got in the way of it all. And so I’m going to be taking that mic this week. And starting to read further. So you can hear like the first, third of the book. If you join our Patrion site, you get the audio version of it in segments.
[00:49:27] And I’m going to start going forward with this microphone right here this week. And we’ll see over the next couple of months, if we can’t get through the rest of the book and you get it by audio. So feel free to go to patron. And if you get that, you get to hear the audio book series as well.
[00:49:43] Ashley Swearengin: [00:49:43] there you go.
[00:49:43] It’s a symbol of your commitment to finish reading.
[00:49:46] Paul Swearengin: [00:49:46] but we actually use it. It actually has an important part of the process.
[00:49:50] Ashley Swearengin: [00:49:50] Yeah. Alright. We should pray.
[00:49:51] Paul Swearengin: [00:49:51] Okay. Let’s do it. Okay. You want to start around
[00:49:54] Ashley Swearengin: [00:49:54] that? No, go ahead.
[00:49:57] Paul Swearengin: [00:49:57] All right. What to pray today? [00:50:00] So my prayer is that God. Will give us the ability to see that there is a future ahead that’s different than the present a future on this earth.
[00:50:14]that the promise of Jesus of the Bible was that he came to bring a life that was not condemning. He John three 17, he didn’t come to condemn the world, but to reconcile it and. To bring a life abundant, a life to the full, as the Psalmist said, I would grieve if I didn’t think I would see the goodness of God in the land of the living.
[00:50:38] And so I do Claire, there will be a goodness that in your household, in the land of the living on this earth. And so I just pray that hope and that peace over you and to our friends that are hurting in this season because of the racial. division in our country and the response of some of the white evangelicals to it.
[00:50:59] I just pray that their [00:51:00] heart would be stabbed and given peace that they’re able to grieve the pain of what they’re hearing and that those of us from, around them will sit and mourn with them, help us to mourn with those who mourn rather than fighting for our rights. God, give us breakthrough eyes to see and ears to hear where your heart.
[00:51:21] It was in the season and then peace in the middle of that.
[00:51:28] Ashley Swearengin: [00:51:28] Yeah. Yeah, I got, I agree with that. Yeah. Prayer and Lord, I lift up the people who are joining this morning or who catch this at some other time. Lord, just anyone who turns their ear to this podcast. Lord, I just pray for each one of those people.
[00:51:45] I pray God that you would reveal your heart for them, pray that you would meet them in the moment. Even right now, the circumstances people find themselves in God, I prayed this weekend would be a time where, people just experience you and [00:52:00] like ways that are unique to them. But I thank you that you are a God that shows up and connects with us in ways that we can individually hear and receive.
[00:52:10] So I bless everybody who gathers around this table, this large table of the nonpartisan evangelical. We just trust you. And we, we release this table to you God. And we just pray that people would find you here, and that they would understand your passionate commitment, your passionate pursuit of relationship with all of us.
[00:52:34] And that would come through loudly and clearly, and it would break through the noise, the political fodder, the proverbial smoke from all of us taken away and firing at one another God that your love would break through all of that. And so we just look to you and we say, we have our hope in you.
[00:52:52] God, we ask that you would have mercy on us as we move through this season as a community and as a nation. [00:53:00] I pray in Jesus name.
[00:53:04] Paul Swearengin: [00:53:04] Awesome.
[00:53:06] Ashley Swearengin: [00:53:06] Okay. God bless you guys.
[00:53:08] Paul Swearengin: [00:53:08] Go to the website, NP podcast.com. Great stuff on there. Had a great conversation with a Muslim the other day. If you ever want to learn anything about how Muslims and Christians in America can live together, check that one out and then hit that Patrion button and join us in helping support this social media management position.
[00:53:25] Ashley Swearengin: [00:53:25] There you go. Are
[00:53:26] Paul Swearengin: [00:53:26] you guys? You guys are awesome. Have a great weekend.
[00:53:28] Ashley Swearengin: [00:53:28] See you next week. Bye.

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